Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Question for Wiccans

I have friends who are Wiccans and have been a general neo-pagan for....roughly 15 years....but my taste in religion is different from the subset of Wiccans typified by younger people who are totally into peace and love and being a witch! Sometimes people do not grow out of it. I've seen people who haven't. People who care about this kind of thing call them "Fluff bunnies" or "Fluffy Bunnies" to illustrate their flakiness and general everything is good attitude towards, well, everything.

Something occurred to me as I was walking in a local video store and saw a documentary about Wicca that said that the Witchcraft 'cult' was really not anti-Christian because it worshipped the Goddess. There's a problem with this, and it that Wiccans also say that the Witchcraft religion was fiercely persecuted and went underground, persecuted by Christians. The persecution is very documentable. Now, if members of your religion were burned at the stake, and burning at the stake continued in England until the 17th century, although very infrequently, then would you preserve a nice and happy attitude towards Christians? Think about it.

Are we to believe that Witches survived all these years just basking in nature and worshipping the Goddess, while having no ill will towards Christians? Just dancing around in circles singing in the spring air.

Which brings me to the crux of the matter. Wiccans today are at pains to say that they aren't anti-Christian and that the idea of witches that fundamentalist Christians have is not right. The ideas that fundamentalist Christians have may not be right, but should that be a reason to bury the hatchet so soon? Maybe a dose of anti-Christianity would help Wicca along.

*on edit: it looks like the article has attracted some interest. I'll just let you folks work things out for yourselves.


Anonymous said...

I personally think that being "anti-christian" isn't very...pagan-like. We're supposed to set an example. We have to show the inner light that we have. Now. I've struggled with this myself. I've just recently come to terms. We should respect the path they choose..even if they don't respect ours. If we show animosity to them, then we're as bad as them. Now. The romans were a pagan society. They believed in multiple gods and goddesses. They persecuted christians. Nero especially. We're better than that.

rane said...

while most wiccans say they don't have anything against christians there are some of us Witches that remember, um, hello, the burning, hanging, and general execution of fellow Pagans. wiccans are taught to love one another. there is a difference between wicca and paganism. paganism is a lifestyle change, resulting from things we have learned from ancestors and instinct. wicca is a new religion that follows some of the belief of witches and pagans. sorry but there IS a difference. i was a witch and pagan long before i started studying the religion of wicca. so maybe this will answer your question a bit. there is more to learn out there if you choose to look. i have my link to my page explaining some of this on this form. have a look. but go with an open mind.
many bright blessings

rane said...


Paul said...

I've thought about this a lot lately, probably because of the intensity of the Shiites and Sunnis and their hatred of any religion other than theirs. All the rituals and holidays of christianity were stolen from pagan beliefs, which may be the only reason they survived. I think we deserve to be a little aggressive in taking back some of what is our's. Samhain should be a time to openly display our pagan beliefs, maybe we should be putting something in our windows besides pumpkins. The nasty religions of Jerusalem have beat us up, killed our people and driven us into hiding. I think it is proper to feel angry and even more so to be open about what has been done. The roman pope said a weak I'm sorry to the jews, I think we deserve at least that much.

Pepper said...

I have been a Wiccan for 40 years. I have been friends with people of all religious paths. Most of them don't know of my religious choice, but I number Christians among those who do. I don't see the religion as the enemy or evil. I see individual people as the enemy and evil.

Patricia said...

Well said, Pepper. Anti-this-or-that attitudes never help any cause. They only drag the whole group into the mire with the rest of the anti-whatevers.

I've practiced Wicca for 19 years myself. I used to be Southern Baptist, but I didn't leave that church because I had anything against the religion; as a matter of fact, the first time I felt energy move in a group setting was not in a closed circle, but during a particularly good revival meeting. I left because I prefered Wicca and the emphasis upon balance that underlies the theology. I don't think that Wicca is absolutely right, or even right for most; I think it's right for me. Christianity is also neither right nor wrong, just right for someone else. Same for any other religion, including the left-hand paths.

I think a far better question is why so many of our younger practitioners are willing to give away so much of themselves to those who would wish them ill. With many, it's almost as if they search these people out in order to give away the best parts of themselves.

Are we really so in need of external validation that we must court enemies to prove our worth to ourselves? Do we need someone to hate? I believe it's indicative of a deep spiritual issue that needs to be addressed soon if Wicca and other pagan groups are to maintain their integrity as spiritual movements.

Theo Geer said...

So, as Rane commented, Wicca is not the same thing as Witchcraft, which is not the same thing as Paganism. The terms are not interchangeable.

First off, Wicca as a religion has only been around about 60 years. It has some roots in older traditions, however no concretized link between modern Wicca and the practicies of ancient European pagans has been found. In the same vein, the practices of those pagans may or may not have been 'religious' practices, so it's a fallacy to say 'descended from ancient religions as well.

On to the point though. Why aren't Wiccans anti-christian? I have no clue. I know plenty of Christian hating Wiccans. I know plenty of Christian hating Pagans of several varieties. In honesty, I think the same thing of them that I think of Pagan hating Christians, Gay hating Christians, or Gay hating Pagans (Yes, there are lots of them out there). That is, I think they're misguided dangerous individuals who are wasting their time, damaging their image and the image of their community, and upholding false principles to satisfy their own egos.

All paths to Spirit are equally valid. Wicca and Christianity are just two examples. I have no problem with any Christian except the one who tries to harm me. And I have the same problem with anyone who tries to harm me.

If you take away my rights, attack my community, or denigrate my humanity, you are attacking me. Your religion is not of consequence.

Makarios said...

In the dim and distant past, Pagans persecuted Christians, and then Christians persecuted Pagans. We're now in the 21st century, so isn't it about time both groups started keeping their sticks on the ice?

Hatred, injury, and insult propagate by contagion. The only way to stop the spread is to refuse to pass it along.

Anonymous said...

Pagans believe in complete acceptance of other religions, beliefs, sexual orientations - you name it. Most pagans find Christians to be one of their least favorite sets, but that doesn't make us ANTI-Christian. We believe Christians as well as any other group have the right to believe and worship as they so choose. We just don't agree with their beliefs and they don't agree with ours. All we want is peaceful coexistence and to be left to do our own thing.

I hold nothing against modern Christians as far as the burning times go. It's very much a sore spot with pagans, but modern Christians are no more to blame for the burning times than modern German government is for the holocaust.

As others also said, to be a Witch does not make one Wiccan. My above comment is how I, and many other PAGANS feel.

Morgianne Ta'ar said...

While I am not, specifically, Wiccan, I am Pagan. In my circles, "fluffy bunnies" are those who are not just all happy and diabetic-sweet all the time, but those who just call themselves pagans/wiccans yet never go forward to learn more, advance themselves and their craft or live their lives as pagans/wiccans, just carry the title because it's "cool".

I grew up Christian, not by choice, obviously. I was afraid of witches, pagans and the like. Now, I feel no animosity. Fear begats many things.

I dislike Christians who think if you're not like them, you're going to hell and must shout it in your face any chance they get. I dislike Christians (or any other religions for that matter) who believe that Wicca/Paganism are not valid religions and we don't deserve the same rights under the constitution as far as freedom of religion goes.

Just as I wouldn't appreciate say, an African-American blaming me for the hanging and slavery of their ancestors, nor would I blame Christians for the burning of witches in the past. I just pray, everyday, that we've learned from history and are not doomed to repeat it.

Cailet said...

I am Pagan but not Wiccan, I believe that all religions are right for the people practicing them. No religion is wrong. But no one religion is right for everyone. Each person need to find his/her way.

I grew up Christian, but found I was drawn to a religion that believed in a Goddess and a God. I don't hate christians, or anyone of any other faith.

I just want to be acceptted for who I am. I want to be allowed to practice my faith as others are allowed to practice theirs.

Blessed Be

Sparrow said...

Well said,Makarios. I like the hockey reference too.

I'd like to say first that witchcraft is not a religion. It is a skill set. You can have pagan witches, christian witches, muslim witches, jewish witches, non religious kinds of witches. Some pagans practice witchcraft but that doesn't make it a religion.

Second, I don't have a problem with Christianity. Why would I? What has it ever done to me?History is just that. In the past. We should learn from it not dwell in it.

Tori58 said...

Certainly there are plenty of Pagans who are hostile toward Christianity, yet there are also people who consider themselves to be "Christo-Pagan" "Christian Wiccan" or "Christian Witches". There is some genuine common ground.